[venture01]

For instance, I HATE stories where the main character (of whatever sex) is kidnapped, r@ped by the "hero" and then falls madly in love with that person. Are you kidding me!!!

The other plot I hate is when the main character has been horrifically abused and then magically, the hero comes along and Poof...all the trauma disappears never to rear it's ugly head again. Again, are you kidding me!!!

I think both stories do a major injustice to everyone who has ever been through either trauma. I'm not saying you can't have those things in a story...well, not the first one, hate that, but if you are going to have your main love interest have abuse (in whatever form) in their background, then have the b@lls to write honestly about what it takes to get past it.

[Miss A]

I agree. Both of those are seriously annoying issues. The "magically recovered from trauma" bothers me the most. I've even caught well known and well edited authors doing this in the latter halves of some series (werewolf series, in particular).
It's a little sick, but I've started looking for books that have major trauma (illness/injury/mental problems/rape/abuse) where they actually deal with the practical problems. Like hospitalization, medication, relapse, government services, permanent disability... Even if they aren't to my taste, for whatever reason, I'm just happy to hear about therapists or Alcoholics Anon.

I also have a bit of an issue with the men who bottom almost always being short, weak and having a "slender" endowment. With the exception of a compendium called "Bend Over Big Boy", whose title stuck with me, this is largely the case.
I kind of want to see a story with a super quiet and polite Asian descended man who is short and normally endowed and who tops the hell out of two or so tall, beefy, hairy white guys.

With a few exception, most 'gay for you/gay out of convenience' stories. Like one, or both characters are straight, find themselves alone together (stranded on an island, work project, etc.) and suddenly something 'happens', because men have needs and BAM - gay!

For personal reasons anything that has to do with cancer or other similarly deadly illnesses; losing a loved one. It's not cute revisiting things you actually lived through. Also, some authors use it as a cheap means of manipulating emotions. Meh.

As mentioned, the "smaller guy always bottoms" is so... Ugh!
Also in the same vein, when the author obviously cannot write mm and you read the 'smaller' one as female all the time, because they stuck to typically heteronormative patterns of speaking, acting etc.
Does anyone know what I mean?

I think I could think of a bunch more, but that always makes me look like a raging bookhater, so I'll stop for now.

[dante11]

i despise the BDSM novels that have these 'scenes' that just aren't possible physically, but, in reality, would seriously injure a submissive. people's bodies just aren't meant to be tied up, or shackled, in the positions they describe, and it gives unrealistic 'ideas' to inexperienced 'pretenders'--someone is going to seriously get hurt-shoulder dislocations, torn rotator cuff, permanent nerve damage--even choking to death!!! the authors of these books have a huge responsibility-and they are constantly failing in this respect--saying things like a caning leaves the skin nice and pink-that is BULLSH!T--you can physically scar someone for life, as well as emotionally.
i don't think that the little 'blurb' they have at the beginning of each book about how 'you shouldn't try this at home-none of the things in this book should be construed as actual suggestions of behavior-and we aren't responsible from any injuries that arise from said behavior' what a load of crap--you are selling this book-these are your words-and they need to at least be responsible enough to do the actual research.
BDSM meets alot of very specific needs-on both sides of the relationship. the gift of submission is the greatest gift, and responsibility, a true Dom can receive-and not only are some of these books giving it a slap the face with their cavalier attitudes, they are doing irreparable harm-not just physically-but emotionally. imagine the guilt a 'person playing at a Dom' would feel if they were to choke someone-because they weren't trained to recognize the symptoms-you can't always rely on a safe word to protect you-something a true Dom would know-but not something a 'pretender' would.

--dante

Agreed with dante about badly done BDSM.
Along those lines, using "he's a Dom" or "it's BDSM" as an excuse to romanticize psychotic/abusive/stalker behavior. I read a particularly bad one a while back, the "sub" and "Dom" characters met while sub was in the hospital with injuries from domestic abuse by another character and the Dom decides "he's mine", doesn't speak to the guy doesn't ask if he's available or interested or anything but that's the start of the relationship. After that the Dom acts like they're already together. And the rest of the book is just more lack of consent and communication. Dom sets rules and follows through on punishments when they are broken and never tells the sub character what they are until he's crossed the line and "earned' a punishment. You're setting someone up to fail so you can punish them for failing. And I'm over here, trying to set you on fire with my mind.

There's never any discussion of what the sub wants, or needs, or even if he agrees to anything. It's just "you're a sub, so you have to accept this because you are submissive." And the "sub" character has such poor self-esteem and low self-worth he never questioned anything.
Thought my head would explode before I finished the book. That one's a good example of bad, but I see a lot of sketchy behaviors given the stamp of approval and written as desirable because "it's BDSM".

On a completely separate, less Hulk-smash inducing level.
Long standing pervasive just-plain-stupid lies. Of the "I told my family/friends/coworkers I'm dating an underwear model but really I've been single the whole time" type that are just.... Oh look! The world has this thing called Google and that underwear model? Totally easy to figure out you two have never been in the same state at the same time.

Generally speaking I think the problem isn't a bad plot or a bad story line so much as it is bad writing. There are story lines that seem bad because no skilled author would bother with them. The essence of story telling is making it believable. The purpose of story telling is to be entertaining (and to some extent educational).

An impossible to believe story line will lead to an impossible to believe story. And even if it could be made believable a story with a rape and torture and Stockholm Syndrome theme isn't going to be entertaining to enough readers to make it marketable. When a loving couple invites a third into their bed because one of them doesn't think the other has been a big enough slut in the past that's not believable. When two guys are totally hot for each other and neither one of them has any idea how the other feels that's usually pretty hard to believe. When a cis-gendered gay male and a trans-gendered gay man hook up and there's no drama beyond normal relationship hurt feelings or misunderstanding I personally think that stretches credibility a bit too much.

On the flip side I can believe that a couple can meet and have really rough sex which is mutually enjoyable and a relationship can develop. I can believe that a college jock would fall for a geek, a male cheerleader, or his coach. I can believe that two hot firemen can secretly long for each other and only act on it when something changes to force the reevaluation. And I can believe that no matter how "good" or "classic" the story line is that there's someone out there who could write the story and not only not make it enjoyable, but manage to make it unbelievable too.

Having a bad story line is just another writing error. It's like all the psuedo-foodie cozy MM romance authors (talk about niche ) who write chefs or bakers into their stories and then do stupid crap like putting rosemary into pesto or confusing meringues and madelines. It's a result of not doing enough research to make it believable and not writing about things they actually know about.

Not writing the characters well enough to make them real and/or likeable can make a story line seem bad. The idea that two men stuck on an island together might have sex isn't hard to believe. And if the characters are written well you could even believe it could become more than just sex. But if the characters are written as totally straight then there are too many barriers to belief for an informed reader to accept the story.

There are authors that write total tops who flip for their total bottom lovers to prove how much they love them. That bugs me because you obviously have an author who's clueless and still managed to get a book published. In that situation the total bottom probably wouldn't be able to get an erection anyway. And total tops are a psychological phenomena so they're more worried about proving things to themselves rather than a lover. Bad writing strikes again.

What I'm trying to get at is that I don't think there necessarily are bad plots. People are incredibly diverse and extremely hard to predict when it comes to sex and relationships. If the author can make the characters in the story believable and interesting that goes a long way to making the story believable and interesting. If the characters are two-dimensional, consistently make bad choices, are racist, bigoted, or have any other traits you wouldn't find desirable you're less likely to like the character and by extension the story. Applying these same traits to the antagonist can, conversely, make them less likeable which does a better job of selling the story.

That said I totally agree with dante's point that the blurb at the front of the book is BULLSHIT and probably nor enough to protect the publisher in the event of a serious legal challenge. A responsible publisher wouldn't put a recipe for C4 in a spy novel and shouldn't put a recipe for disaster in a romance novel.

Some of the sessions you read in MM fiction are only believable if you're totally ignorant of what the BDSM community offers. In my experience there's always discussion ahead of time. Sessions that just happen are as realistic as trauma that magically disappears when you get a kiss from your prince.

Now if you really meant turn off I'm going to have to go with FF, MF and MFF romances with lots of heavy duty sex scenes......

I completely agree with you on the rape-to-love plots. Not only are those plots off-putting for romanticizing violent and traumatic experiences, they're just unoriginal and lazy imo.

I HATE it when authors try to put their own spin on the "ex-lesbian" or "lesbian falls for a man" trope. It's popping up more and more under the guise of representing "sexual fluidity." These books (and movies, TV show plots, conversion therapy stories, etc.) have always existed and have always been popular...among straight people. Trying to repackage it as progressive representation betrays such a profound lack of awareness of the history of LGBT literature, particularly literature about lesbians. It's also lazy and unoriginal writing. Any author that needs to fall back on a trope that was created to satisfy lesbian fetishists in order to push books is a hack, guaranteed.

I completely agree with all that you have said... Fully straight guys don't just up and become Gay... sometimes Bi, but always a top...

With a few exception, most 'gay for you/gay out of convenience' stories. Like one, or both characters are straight, find themselves alone together (stranded on an island, work project, etc.) and suddenly something 'happens', because men have needs and BAM - gay!

For personal reasons anything that has to do with cancer or other similarly deadly illnesses; losing a loved one. It's not cute revisiting things you actually lived through. Also, some authors use it as a cheap means of manipulating emotions. Meh.

As mentioned, the "smaller guy always bottoms" is so... Ugh!
Also in the same vein, when the author obviously cannot write mm and you read the 'smaller' one as female all the time, because they stuck to typically heteronormative patterns of speaking, acting etc.
Does anyone know what I mean?

I think I could think of a bunch more, but that always makes me look like a raging bookhater, so I'll stop for now.

I completely agree with all that you have said... Fully straight guys don't just up and become Gay... sometimes Bi, but always a top...

I think there's some consensus that sexual orientation isn't all that fluid. On the other hand bi guys may not realize what their options are until they consider them. And you can be a straight man and still have sex with other men. Many of them do and they aren't always tops. They aren't even always tops with women ( google pegging). Please don't allow your preconceptions to limit the options of other people, even the fictional ones.

To answer the original question I dislike anything where the characters aren't at all believable. I also dislike any story where the author doesn't respect his or her characters. Bottom shaming a character, inventing words to diminish their characters (I particularly hate "toppy"), or not being able to keep their characters' names right are all signs there's something wrong with the story and or the person who wrote it.

[BambieReader]

instalust instalove insta everything..

also books that are too gushy or maudlin, or crybabies.
whether in MM or MF, I hate those.

from personal experience: If a straight man has sex with other man he is bisexual... but i also hate it when the characters aren't believable...!

[/quote]

I think there's some consensus that sexual orientation isn't all that fluid. On the other hand bi guys may not realize what their options are until they consider them. And you can be a straight man and still have sex with other men. Many of them do and they aren't always tops. They aren't even always tops with women ( google pegging). Please don't allow your preconceptions to limit the options of other people, even the fictional ones.

To answer the original question I dislike anything where the characters aren't at all believable. I also dislike any story where the author doesn't respect his or her characters. Bottom shaming a character, inventing words to diminish their characters (I particularly hate "toppy"), or not being able to keep their characters' names right are all signs there's something wrong with the story and or the person who wrote it.[/quote]

In addition to a lot of the ones already listed, I hate it when only of of the characters bottoms. It happens in a many gay-for-you books where only the "slender" guy bottoms while the closeted/jock only tops. I wish more mm G4U books feature vers characters, instead of characters that support the false notion that there are only strictly tops and strictly bottoms.

I hate the gay for you themes, the cheesy relationships themes, the shy stuttering guy themes, the puff overprotective guy themes, and the insta-lust/love themes.

Thought of another one, ones where the guys are always super tall. It often seems that the guys are over 6'2". Where are stories with more short-average height guys?

[Mary Bricklin]

For me, it's the stories where one character invades the other characters' house, whether it's to rape or rob. Something happens and they see each other, the invader leaves and then - Bam! There's the invader the next day. "Hey, I know I did this bad thing to you but something about you caught my attention and I'm ready to repair my ways."

BDSM stories period. I'll be honest, at first I enjoyed reading them. But then I started reading up on BDSM and, while there's a few authors who write it correctly, it's a rare few. So, I just stay away from them all now.