[mthammer]

Enlighten me because it makes zero difference to me when I'm reading. I can see if a file is converted from a pdf or something and has formatting problems but I never understood the reason why somebody wants something "retail only". And apparently buying something yourself and converting say a mobi file to epub through Calibre isn't "retail"?

There's a person that posts a ton of requests for retail only books. A lot of them get filled but always replied with "not retail". For starters, how do they even know? They then go on and wait for a different file of the exact same book. Almost seems like they just want it based on the cover? I don't know. I guess I just don't get why some people seem to nitpick when it comes to a sharing scenario like this?

[canmus]

I have often wondered this myself.... asking for retail only.
It doesn't make a difference to me whether I read something that is singlespaced or doublespaced.
We seem to have forgotten we are receiving something we are not paying a penny for!!

I'm curious too. The only thing I can think of is that they mean 'retail' as the opposite of ARC, because then there might be differences with the book that is actually published. I hope someone who knows can tell us

[cmjr100]

I've seen some requests for retail only of books I've got, but can't guarantee that they are retail. I'm assuming it would be wrong of me to offer them?

[Tidal]

I've seen some requests for retail only of books I've got, but can't guarantee that they are retail. I'm assuming it would be wrong of me to offer them?

Not wrong so much as unlikely to be accepted by the requester. If people request specifically retail, they want a file that is identical to the DRM-free, retail version. It will not have been put through any conversion or other processes.

Sometimes, a requester will ask for 'retail or retail-quality'. The latter I would interpret as not retail per se, but something that looks on the surface in every way like the retail. In this case, it may have been put through a conversion, been edited by the provider to remove errors in the original retail file, and so on.

Hope that helps.

[canmus]

Hi McJaim,
I understand that retail means it has gone through the conversion.
But the question is what makes the converted product so different and thus unacceptable from the retail version. Is it layout, font, spacing....?

[Tidal]

Hi McJaim,
I understand that retail means it has [not] gone through the conversion.
But the question is what makes the converted product so different and thus unacceptable from the retail version. Is it layout, font, spacing....?

You meant to write 'not' gone through conversion, right?

what makes the converted product so different and thus unacceptable from the retail version. Is it layout, font, spacing....?

Often all three; also, missing content. However, just as likely, it is none of the above; but only that the file's code (x/html, etc.) has been changed - which conversion and other processes will do.

The matter of un/acceptability is a matter of taste.

[canmus]

Ahh, thank you for explaining. Missing content! As in chapters ? Or do you mean prologue and acknowledgments...and stuff like that.

[Tidal]

Ahh, thank you for explaining. Missing content! As in chapters ? Or do you mean prologue and acknowledgments...and stuff like that.

Could be anything and I've seen just about everything. Missing sentences, paragraphs, pages, sections, chapters, front or back pages... - and bits or portions thereof. Poor scanning, with no subsequent proofing, can be a cause of that. Also, poor conversions.

[maillemom]

Sometimes the table of contents do not convert properly. If you have the book on say reading device and your phone and you don't have the reading device with you, you turn to your phone to read. You can remember the chapter you are on but can't get to it as the book does not have a table of contents.

[PandaThePanda]

I know a lot ask for retail, as a lot that one find online is not that great. IE Bill the Galactic hero, the first book is almost not readable due to ORC errors (I read the first "50" pages and gave up). Other problems is especially with PDF's that I found is people screenshotting their epub/mobi book in their PC reader (with the reader in the shot) and passing them off as near original, or saving them to PDF from their reader, thus you get a PDF that is really geared for a 3" screen (i've got quite a few of them).

Format shifting Mobi/AZW3>Epub or Epub>Mobi/AZW3 I have no problem with. But PDF>anything or Epub/Mobi/Azw3>PDF is a no-no.

I know a lot ask for retail, as a lot that one find online is not that great. IE Bill the Galactic hero, the first book is almost not readable due to ORC errors (I read the first "50" pages and gave up). Other problems is especially with PDF's that I found is people screenshotting their epub/mobi book in their PC reader (with the reader in the shot) and passing them off as near original, or saving them to PDF from their reader, thus you get a PDF that is really geared for a 3" screen (i've got quite a few of them).

Format shifting Mobi/AZW3>Epub or Epub>Mobi/AZW3 I have no problem with. But PDF>anything or Epub/Mobi/Azw3>PDF is a no-no.

I agree. Unless extra content/stuff (like amazon's X-ray thing, or selectable those pop-ups) is stripped, I really don't see a big deal converting from a purchased epub/mobi/azw3 source.

I've converted well over a hundred books from epub->mobi, & vice versa, and I've never had any problems with them except in rare cases. It's only html/txt stuff that can be slightly problematic, and the worst are usually PDFs.

Maybe most people asking for retail don't realize what they're asking for. And they don't mind if it was converted from mobi/epub/azw3?

[merry60]

Maybe most people asking for retail don't realize what they're asking for. And they don't mind if it was converted from mobi/epub/azw3?

Oh, they do. They consider themselves 'purists', and you know how converted believers sometimes become more Catholic than the Pope. They take a file and open it in Sigil hoping to find traces of Calibre so they can cry "Gotcha!" and claim that the file is not retail.

Here's how it goes: you buy a book in a proprietary format like azw3 that most people cannot read because they don't own the vendor's device; you bought the book from a retailer, therefore you have a 'retail' file, yes? Well, no. Or yes, as long as you add it to your device and do nothing else.

But if you want to make the file readable by all other e-readers in the known Universe, do not go and commit the cardinal sin of converting with Calibre, the file will no longer be 'retail' according to some, particularly the scene guys. Nope, you have just miraculously turned what you purchased into something comparable to a second-hand book from a thrift store, no longer kosher: the resulting epub has Calibre all over it!! But not to worry, you'll be fine if you use the same program's plugin to extract instead, it won't leave a trace and nobody will say a bad word about it

I must admit that after having had to validate and fix and repair and correct hundreds of badly formatted RETAILS from all vendors in the market, I no longer equal retail with good. What's more, I believe we owe an eternal debt of gratitude to Kovid Goyal, without whom we would not be where we are now. So yes, I may have a bit of a problem with extreme purism, but I hope it doesn't show. Too much.

Oh, they do. They consider themselves 'purists', and you know how converted believers sometimes become more Catholic than the Pope. They take a file and open it in Sigil hoping to find traces of Calibre so they can cry "Gotcha!" and claim that the file is not retail.

Here's how it goes: you buy a book in a proprietary format like azw3 that most people cannot read because they don't own the vendor's device; you bought the book from a retailer, therefore you have a 'retail' file, yes? Well, yes, as long as you add it to your device and nothing else.

Heh, so what term should then be used for stuff that's from a good epub/mobi/azw3 retail source, instead of say, from a PDF/scanning/etc.. (retail-sourced)? Or is it covered by the v5.0 designation?

One aggravating feature I'd fix is the map display. Most are meant for landscape, but they seem to always squish them in portrait mode, where they're too small. (Cause people are apparently too stupid to rotate their ereaders.) It requires an extra step of zooming in whenever you want to check them. Maybe this should be in a new scene rule? Wide maps in landscape mode. Long (vertically) maps stay in portrait.

As for the purists, surely they must realize that different e-readers each have a limited # of font sets (even android/ios won't have them all), whereas a printed book may have practically any font under the sun. So it may not be as the author intended... although authors/publishers are now thinking of the digital format first now...

I must admit that after having had to validate and fix and repair and correct hundreds of badly formatted RETAILS from all vendors in the market, I no longer equal retail with good. What's more, I believe we owe an eternal debt of gratitude to Kovid Goyal, without whom we would not be where we are now. So yes, I may have a bit of a problem with extreme purism, but I hope it doesn't show.

Really? I convert to and from epubs all the time with calibre. Out of curiousity, what kind of errors happen? I remember earlier calibres did occasionally make stuff disappear, but haven't noticed it recently. Or are you just talking about things that happened in the past.

What should I be looking for? (I mean minus the gazillions of errors that a good copy editor can fix in most indie publications. If these authors paid me, I'd fix all their errors.)

[merry60]

Really? I convert to and from epubs all the time with calibre. Out of curiousity, what kind of errors happen? I remember earlier calibres did occasionally make stuff disappear, but haven't noticed it recently. Or are you just talking about things that happened in the past.

I wasn't talking about any of it, I am afraid you misunderstood my words:

I must admit that after having had to validate and fix and repair and correct hundreds of badly formatted RETAILS from all vendors in the market, I no longer equal retail with good.

I'll rephrase to make it even more clear: I have had to correct hundreds of files purchased and received directly from online stores, AKA RETAIL files, which were badly formatted, full of errors and most of the times failed to validate.